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Versant2100User
New Member
New Member

Re: The Dark side of Versant 2nd BTR

When you say cleaning blade, do you mean the IBT belt cleaner assembly or do you mean the cleaning blade on the 2nd BTR?

Would you recommend for us to switch to Silver Digital Matt? For silk stock we sometimes use ArcticSilk+ by Arctic Paper. Sometimes we still have problems with strikes/lines on Arctic Silk+ 115gsm with fairly new 2nd BTRs. My theory is that true coated silk paper just doesnt work with the versant. We also sometimes use Pro-Design by International Paper. It is much more durable than silk paper because it is not actually coated - While using it we dont have to worry too much about streaking. Another problem is that a lot of customers require silk paper instead of for example Pro Design, because it is often cheaper, coated and the most usual paper for magazines etc.

A huge problem for us it also that we bought a bunch of Colour Impressions Silk paper and other silk paper that was recommended by Xerox. We didnt know anything about the 2nd BTR issues when buying the paper and now we have a bunch of paper that we basically cant use. I really hope there will be a fix/update to the 2nd BTR. If nothing happens we must switch to a different machine that is able to handle silk paper.

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Futaura
Member
Member

Re: The Dark side of Versant 2nd BTR

Yes, sorry, the IBT cleaner. That said, the tech didn't bother replacing it this time, even though it is 100K over the 300K threshold. The tech installed yet more new software on our V180, which apparently may help with the 2nd BTR issue (heard that before though).

We tend to use Pro Design for uncoated too (actually, switched to Image Impact Plus, which is exactly the same paper, but in a different wrapper, which we can get cheaper), but as you say it is more expensive than silk/gloss. The 2nd BTR happens just as badly on 250gsm/300gsm Pro Design as on silk, we find.

I would recommend Silver Digital, but Xerox Colour Impressions Silk is pretty close to it anyway when it comes to 2nd BTR life. We've never tried Arctic Silk - I wonder if it is the same as another brand? I know Canon/OCE Top Coated Plus Silk was/is the same as Lumi Digital Silk up to 250gsm , for example. As I've said before, the 2nd BTR problem happens more quickly for us when running a lot of 250gsm or heavier stock - if we were to only run 150gsm silk, I don't think we'd have much of a problem. 

I think what Xerox need to sort out is why is it dumping toner over the 2nd BTR in the first place. The IBT cleaner should be cleaning off waste toner before it gets to the 2nd BTR, so why is toner still getting dumped on the roller in between sheets of paper passing through. The amount of waste toners we get through on the V180 is even more than we got on our V80.

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k_graham
Frequent Member
Frequent Member

Re: The Dark side of Versant 2nd BTR

It has been a few months now, is this still an issue on the 180 and did it extend to the 3100's ?

We are considering their new Versant 280 which is the 180 with higher 350 GSM duplex or 400 GSM single side spec. As well it has the option of Metallics but at seemingly excessive price for the option. (I think they put the decimal place 1 to far to the left for the option:(

Alternatively if they have a clearance on their 3100 models for their soon to be released new models due to release of the new ones that will do the additional metalic inks.  

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Versant2100User
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Re: The Dark side of Versant 2nd BTR

We have a 2100 and just received the newest model of 2nd BTR (2.0), the one who 3100 uses. It lasted 1 day with under 3000 impressions and then there were streaks on the paper. We only used 170gsm Xerox Colour Impressions Silk and were not able to complete the print order without streaks.

Our conclusion is that this these Versant machines are not made for Coated paper. Especially Silk paper. If we were running silk paper every day, we would need to replace several 2nd BTR's within a single week.

I'm 99% sure that Xerox will never fully fix this issue by just adjusting the 2nd BTR and making script changes. They need to make a completely different 2nd BTR and replace several parts of the machine. The machine just uses a lot of toner that is too much to handle for the 2nd BTR. The 2nd BTR's also gets damaged very easily by the edge of the paper, which will cause a scratch on the 2nd BTR, that will transfer toner dirt on the printed paper.

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k_graham
Frequent Member
Frequent Member

Re: The Dark side of Versant 2nd BTR

In that case I guess its up to Xerox to state what they did differently on the 280 model if anything. Are their any Versant 280 users that care to comment, if not Xerox?

Thanks, 

Ken

 

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fabianboxi
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New Member

Re: The Dark side of Versant 2nd BTR

Hello, i am having this problem with my versant 80 and 2100, does anybody have a solution?

 

regards

Fabian

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Versant2100User
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Re: The Dark side of Versant 2nd BTR

Hello Fabian,

There's not really a solution for the problem unless you have service on the machine and it's free to change 2nd BTR. Xerox has made a lot of updates on the 2nd BTR, but the newer ones also give us the same problems on our 3100. Some 2nd BTR's don't last for 1 job on Silk paper. Xerox blames the paper, but we also have problems on recommended Xerox media and even on original Xerox paper. The dirt/streaking is simply just more visible on Silk paper / Coated paper.

In our experience the versant 80 is much better than the 2100 and the 3100. It doesn't waste as much color and therefore the 2nd BTR can function more normally.

We have tried so many different things to fix the problem. For example:

  • Cleaning the 2nd BTR manually (Inside)
  • Changing the 2nd BTR blade
  • Cleaning the IBT cleaner box manually
  • Changing the IBT cleaner box blade
  • Enabling skip pitch mode
  • Trying new scripts to change toner voltage and 2nd BTR settings

The only fix for this is to use uncoated paper that doesn't make the streaking so visible. This isn't really a fix, because it forces the customers to choose a different paper. Fx images are usually not as vivid on uncoated paper.

Xerox should just add a disclaimer that Versant machines can't run coated paper such as Silk paper.

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Futaura
Member
Member

Re: The Dark side of Versant 2nd BTR

Snap.

For a temporary fix, to finish a job, I use isopropyl alcohol, and lint free cloth, on the roller itself to clean all the toner off, and run in skip pitch mode, if required.

For us, heavyweight coated stock is the killer, whatever the brand. The most common stock we run is actually 150gsm silk, and that doesn't seem to trigger the issue so quickly, even when duplexed. But, as soon as we run 300gsm silk duplex this will usually guarantee the 2nd BTR messing up after 100 or so sheets, if it isn't a brand new unit. We don't have the performance pack option, so 300gsm silk runs slower than 150gsm - I've long suspected this may make things worse.

I spoke to one of our Xerox techs a few weeks ago about the Versant 280, and he'd only been to service one at the time - guess what part needed replacing! Nothing has been changed in the newer Versant models that improves the situation.

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fabianboxi
New Member
New Member

Re: The Dark side of Versant 2nd BTR

Hello, thanks for the fast reply...

 

I will try your solutions... I also tried to clean manually the 2nd btr but it just worked for a few thousands

 

Thanks

 

Regards

Fabian

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Dave_PPCis
New Member
New Member

Re: The Dark side of Versant 2nd BTR

A few years ago, we were switched to the 604K87040 Retard rolllers, which left less residue on the coated sheets.  The tech suggested it was the worn down bits of roller sticking to the sheet that were damaging the BTR and we haven't seen the issue since.